Draft Comment Page formats and sizes Michiel Leenaars, Jeroen Dekkers DIS29500 has a number of issues related to page formats and sizes. In its definition tables for page formats nor in its definition of page dimensions DIS 29500 does not respect ISO/IEC directives, part 2, section 6.6.9 (Quantities, units, symbols and signs) which normatively states: "The International System of units (SI) as set out in ISO 31 shall be used". It incorrectly references ISO 216 names for paper formats that are not conformant to those ISO names (for instance: it lists 6 different types of A4 paper with undefined suffixes and 4 completely different dimensions. There is an "B5 paper" size that correctly measures 176 mm by 250 mm according to ISO definitions, yet at the same time there is an "ISO B5 extra paper" which despite its explit referral incorrectly measures 201 mm by 276 mm. DIS 29500 additionaly fails to cover many important ISO 216 defined standard paper formats (of which there are just 27), most significantly in the lower end of the scale (A0, A1 and A2, B0,B1 and B2) and in the higher end (A7, B7 and beyond). Since A0 and B0 are the basis of the definition of the ISO-A and B-series respectively, this omission is not acceptable. Additional to that is the fact that DIS2900 also cannot reproduce in any way the socalled "(specially derived) long sizes" and "trimmed long sizes" of the ISO-A and ISO-B series ? such as 4A0 and 2A0 which are among the standard formats specifically named in ISO 216. More fundamentally issues within DIS29500 related to page sizes go back to using an inflexible, fixed yet non-exhaustive list of inadequately named paper formats - instead of directly using proper dimensions in millimeters. The unnecessary introduction of a finite and fixed indirect lookup table for such an elementary twodimensional numerical compound with real-world meaning does not at all serve interoperability or backward compatibility with historical formats. The fact that for a virtually identical issue with print label sizes this setup is not necessary, is proof enough. Yet it actively hinders users and producers to work with self-defined formats at the same level of representation. Additionally such a long list without any proper (normative) references infers the risk of going against local market conventions, existing implementations by other vendors and/or historical definitions made elsewhere. Minor future changes and additions to the spec will break existing implementations in unforeseeable ways. As such is should be considered bad design rather than ugly design, and needs to be repaired. Additionally the use of a lookup table is likely to raise the cost of implementation and maintenance for new entrants and will more easily cause errors (especially when using different measurement units within the same table, as has been stated before; for instance in the implementation of functions like 2.15.1.64 printTwoOnOne [Print Two Pages Per Sheet]. DIS 29500 contains three identical page size lists (3.3.1.61 pageSetup [Page Setup Settings], 3.3.1.62 pageSetup [Chart Sheet Page Setup], 5.7.2.135 pageSetup [Page Setup], which in itself is errorprone (can they be different) and maintenance-unfriendly. -------------- Proposed change: Removal of par. 3.3.1.61 pageSetup [Page Setup Settings], 3.3.1.62 pageSetup [Chart Sheet Page Setup], 5.7.2.135 pageSetup [Page Setup] from the spec. Remove section 2.6.13 pgsz (Page Size) and reuse the equivalent ISO 26300 namespace (which in turn uses industry standard W3C namespace fo (formatting objects), thus avoiding introduction of unnecessary new syntax and a measurement system violating ISO directives as stated elsewhere in the comments. Additionally, the element paper-tray-name should be used instead of the underdefined w:code="240". This rewrites the thus deprecated: into the equivalent, ISO-216 conformant and already ISO-standardised element (ISO 26300, 15.2 Page Layout Formatting Properties) Nota bene: as an extension to both ODF and OOXML to service those producers that want to carry pre-defined or user-defined names for paper within documents, paper size name may as a suggestion be included as an additional text attribute style:paper-format-friendlyname. This element should carry no relevance to applications but might serve as a userfriendly metadata element for locally defined or application specific paper names that are converted from applications that used to work with such names.